This path of reconciliation and development in Ukraine after presidential election declared republican leader Pavlo Viknyanskyy during the live broadcast of the popular program «Shuster LIVE. Weekdays» on the First National Channel, Channel 24, May 26, 2014. Savik Shuster was a presenter of the studio. Here’s snippets of the sharp discussion on «Live in a new light?»
Savіk Shuster: Live, the First National TV, Channel 24. Day after the presidential election and in our studio are the young people who will shape the civil society in Ukraine. Vitaliy Shabunin – a headof the Center for combating corruption.
Vitaliy Shabunin: Good evening.
Savіk Schuster: Dan Pasko – the President of the Harvard Club of Ukraine and one of the organizers of the initiative «Professional government».
Dan Pasko: Hello.
Savіk Shuster:Pavlo Viknyanskyy – the chairman of the All-Ukrainian Non-Governmental Youth Organization «Students’ Republic», the chairman of the People Democratic League of Youth.
Savіk Shuster: And Svitlana Kolomiyets — the lawyer, member of the community Global Shapers — World Economic Forum. Global Shapers — a worldwide community of young and talented people from different spheres of activity, who share a desire to build a more harmonious world. But as long as this world is not very harmonious, we’ll start with this.
Savіk Shuster: Pavlo?
Pavlo Viknyanskyy: Hello again. Thank you for the opportunity to talk with intelligent people. I do not doubt that we can not only change personalias — be the ones who are responsible, but also to change the system, otherwise what for do politics then? Absolutely convinced that the way out to resolve the situation in Ukraine on actual disconnection in the country, with preservation of the country, Ukraine, which we inherited from the USSR, should be in these geographic boundaries, and this, we believe, shouldn’t be the periphery of Europe or an item for which the major powers struggling, but to be among the top 20 most developed countries. And we have everything for that!
And I’m sure that to reach this purpose there should be a dialogue within the country, we have to do everything in order to people not die, and, in any case, there is no excuse if the person has different point of view and, therefore, we have reason to despise her or to say that he/she is, I keep on repeating it, zombied, bad, whatever. Human, when we refer to someone that way, has a natural reaction to «respond opposite» — and that’s understandable. We haveto understand these people and when here in Kiev, «very poor» city of Ukraine, we say that we are in the grip and will save, I do not want to say such things to a resident of Snizhne or Alchevsk, because these people work in the industry and they support the Ukrainian economy, and we have to the interests that they have, defend and talk about them. This is a public interest of Ukraine.
How manage to do that? Unfortunately, representatives of Donetsk elite discredited in front of Ukraine (and not just Donetsk elite). I mean, the whole political class of Ukraine is absolutely criminal, because he constantly offers us: «Change a little bit of scenery there, and somehow it will be. Moscow or Brussels or Washington will advise us – they are smart people». Until we put the goal of radical «reinstall» of this criminal system, till then there, in Ukraine, will be no dialogue, no peace, no sustained development, I stress — very important! — No modernization. How manage to do that? Very easy to do!
Savik Shuster:Very simple, but…
Pavlo Viknyanskyy: There are tools that work around the world, this is,first of all, a new constitution. The same happened in South Africa, it was in many other countries — and it is possibility to reduce a great degree of stress, which was in these countries as well.
Svitlana Kolomiyets: Let me interrupt you for a minute? As a lawyer I can tell you that the new constitution will not save, absolutely. Laws are good enough, the Constitution is not so bad, really, huh? And the question is not…
Pavlo Viknyanskyy: But none politician and none citizen never deliberately lived by its rules. Let’s be honest!
Svitlana Kolomiyets: That’s right, the question is how the laws are carried out.
Pavlo Vіknyanskyy: And do you know why? The text of the Constitution was never adopted by all the Ukrainian people in a referendum. Political class, Verkhovna Rada always decide everything in our country. Our political class are the servants of oligarchs — surely they only defend their interests. The interests, of both, as of representatives of an active Ukrainian community, creative class, representatives of progressive layers that were on the Maidan, are completely alien to them, as the interests of the working class.
Pavlo Viknyanskyy: I would like to caution: there is one very important thing that we forgot to mention just now, at the end — the people! People wanted to disperse this band for a long time. People started their changes, they behave quite destructive in the East, but again, this is a continuation of the same trends that we haven’t fully analyzed yet. They just want to disperse the parliament and choose appropriate people there.
But we have no rights to fool people longer. How to prevent this? As I said, the solution is simple, it is much easier, I apologize, than to depose that bandit, criminal regime — it’s the new Constitution by the people, for the people’s initiative, by the procedure of the national referendum widely discussed. Ifsomeone is opposed to…
Savik Shuster: It is impossible!
Pavlo Viknyanskyy: If someone is opposed to discussions about the Constitution of the people, I have a question, whose interests the Constitution must support? People? It has to serve the interests of individual oligarchs, who returned to power each time after some perturbations from top, among the so-called Ukrainian elite, which is all criminal? So, we have, the youth, defend interests of the people and be at the forefront of these changes, and this is a way to do a reboot of a power.
Qualitative reboot of a power will be possible not only if young people go to and enter the Parliament — sorry, Klymenko, Yanukovychs — they all were very young, but when it will enter people with values, ideological people, people who understand the difference between «left» from «right», really, not populists which we see, unfortunately, in the results of the presidential election.
And another great dange, I would like to warn with your permission: it is time to stop shifting responsibility for Poroshenko, Yanukovych, to have any hopes! Everything depends only on, especially on civil society, on very important structural part of civil society — political parties, which we build. Last Kiev elections showed that new projects, ideological projects have to be introduced. I hope for God, there be more ones and we will merge into the toilet not only the old politicians, but those who are interested only in their own ratings and personal enrichment.
Dan Pasko: Explain why do you think that these constitutional changes are the key changes now, I just do not understand. Maybe you can explain to me and the viewers.
Pavlo Vіknyanskyy: Very simple. In fact, changing the actors in the play can affect, in principle, even the sales of tickets for this show, but the performance, unlikely, will change. So we need to change that performance.
Danilo Pasko: What exactly?
Pavlo Vіknyanskyy: All the time we have «Blood-suckers or Spider» and similar stories… But we must change the rules of the game, directly, in the Constitution: the election of judges, the real rights of local governments, to stop juggling term «decentralization». We have is a debate about administrative reform for 15 years, but it is not embodied, because it is contrary to the interests of the people who come to power. Each of the Ukrainian politicians declares that, here, «I will come and give local government law»,but, in fact, spin nut even more, transfer into more holdings and other systems money to Kiev, and from there they are displayed in the offshore — and as a result, then we have absolutely poor people in the East. And then we are indignant, why people out there do not «catch up» to such smart «wise men» of Kiev! Because people are suffering, we need to keep taxes and many other «things» on the ground.
That’s all you need to determine, I emphasize, in the new game rules. Who will be interested in them? We are interested! We are interested in the normal, progressive, truly rejuvenated Ukraine. Rules of the game — this is the Constitution!
Pavlo Vіknyansky: But instead people want to be understood, people want to be not pressed, and people want an outstretched hand. And my talk is not only about the Constitution, for example, but in general – it is about reconciliation. It’s a conversation about outstretched hand not to the oligarchs: Akhmetov, Firtash and company. An outstretched hand – to the common laborers, who are live there [in the Donbas], often in impoverished and who are in need to see another life. And the show, we are arguing now that we are losing the information war, we thus see, what we are talking about, we are saying: «They brainwash them, but we want to brainwash instead them!»Guys, we have to bear the truth! We have to carry different opinions!
Pavlo Viknyanskyy: I tell you. The Lord of the sovereignty of our country is the people. People have to implement advantageous things to people with the help of, including, constitutional changes. If so happened that all, as I said, the criminal political class doesn’t meet interest of the people, not President or Parliament, then they must be changed and then there will be no traitors. If we go, I’m sure, «from bad to worse» again and again, and don’t change the rules of the game everything will be the same — we will cheat people again. Suffice to deceive people!
This should go by hand in hand process. Personnel changes, I’m absolutely convinced that young people have to go to power of a country. No need to tell everyone that young people are without experience, «you will not handle». We will do everything as it should be! But, in parallel, we’ll change rules of the game, which we will honestly comply, and do not «dodge» as they do! Do not manipulate!